Anchoring Q & A

Hi Steve, I took your advice and got the next size bigger Bruce for my 46 foot, 28 ton displacement schooner. The new 110 lb anchor is quite a conversation piece sitting in the shop while we try to figure out how to mount it. We don't think a standard bow roller will work because of the 90 deg turn needed to bring the shackle and anchor up onto the roller. It's difficult enough with the current 60lb CQR. We're thinking that a pivoting bow roller may work but I've not found any rated for that kind of weight. Can you recommend a roller or have any suggestions? Thanks, Carl

Hi Carl: We've used both pivoting and fixed rollers with our Bruces. If you look at the photos on the Dashew Offshore part of the website under the FPB, you can see the fixed double roller arrangement on Wind Horse. This was engineered for a 120Kg Bruce. It is self launching. Also, our Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia has lots of bow roller details. Steve

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Aloha from Hanalei Bay, Kauai. I am in the process of making a hurricane plan for AVALON, one of your beautiful, well thought out and seaworthy Sundeer 60s. She is now happily living in Nawiliwili, Kauai.

I think that in the event of a hurricane I will anchor her in the harbor rather than leave her at the dock. I am considering a 50 lb Danforth style anchor on about 20 feet of chain shackled to the 120 lb Bruce on the 5/16 schedule 70 300 ft anchor cable. I also plan to put a 30 lb kellet on the chain rode. Thoughts? Aloha, Scott

Hi Scott: Hard to comment on a hurricane system. What we do know is a Sundeer 64, with 80kg Bruce and 3/8” sched 7 chain, survived at anchor in Grenada couple of years ago. Steve

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Hello, Thanks for your excellent books and CDs. We have purchased your Encyclopedia and CD but have not gotten off cruising to the Carribe yet. Soon though.

In following your recommendations on anchoring, (we purchased a 65 lb Spade Anchor and will back it up with 200 feet of ACCO 3/8s Chain with oversized links on each - and following your admonition it must be the right size as our dockmates have laughed at the size we bought), but we had a question as to what shackle you are using with your system. We want to insure that our shackle will not be the weakest part of our system. Can you advise the maker and size of shackles in use on your boat? Ed & Sue

Hi Ed and Sue: The first time you are anchored on a poor bottom with a gale howling around your ears and your neighbors dragging you'll be the ones laughing with the big anchor!

Re shackles, just make sure the breaking strength is equal to the break strength of the chain. Shackles will often be marked with a working load and you need to find the factor of safety, which is often five to one. Then check this against the chain. Stainless shackles are typically NOT strong enough. Steve

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Hi Steve & Linda, Thanks for the great Encyclopedia & library. We have been enjoying it for a long time now. Thanks also for your advice on the ROCNA anchor. We have now purchased one & hope to start using it & the boat soon. I'm wondering if you've any knowledge/feedback on leaded anchor line. We have 42 metres of chain but would like more. Unfortunately our anchor locker won't take any more & I thought perhaps 50 metres of leaded anchor line might make a suitable compromise (added to the existing chain). We have not come across anyone who has used this product & are hoping you or one of your readers can help with some feedback. Thanks, Pam & Bill

Hi Pam and Bill: I am not familiar with leaded anchor line. Is there a website where we could get more info?

From your e-mail address I take it you are in the S. Pacific. This being the case, if there is any coral around the preference is going to be chain. If not all chain, then you will want a line which floats, so that it does not foul or chafe on coral. In the olden days some of our cruising friends used polypropelene line with their chain. Today I'd look at something like Spectra or Vectran without a cover as it is much stronger. All of these are floaters. You just have to be careful with traffic if the line floats! Good luck - Steve

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Hello Steve, Would you please tell me the material you used for anchor rollers on Windhorse? Is there a good mix between something soft (quiet) enough and durable? Thanks, Bill

Hi Bill: We have used UHMW plastic for bow rollers and chain skids for many years. It is very tough and long lasting. But you will not get much support for a long span shaft through it so the pin has to be beefy or a metal sleeve used for stiffness. - Steve

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Hello, How about some coments about anchors Bruce vs ROCNA for the tropics for a 68 ft wt 68,000 sailboat. What size for the ROCNA do I go with their charts or go weigh up and do we keep a large Bruce also. Thanks, Fred

Hi Fred: The ROCNA is a much better all around anchor. There are no hard and fast rules about sizing, except that BIGGER is always better. Lots of comments on this throughout SetSail.

As to your specific boat, without knowing the windage and configuration hard to say. But a Sundeer 64 Ketch went through the big hurricane a couple of years ago in Grenada with a 80kg Bruce (176 lhbs), so I would start there, using the additional holding power of the ROCNA for higher factor of safety in poor holding and the ability to anchor on very short scope. - Steve

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I am going to school on your experience. I am wanting to upgrade my windlass from an older AnchorMan that is better suited to line than the System 7 3/8th chain and 65-pound spade we have acquired.

I was intrigued by Maxwell's offerings but their specs shown on the web seemed to indicate they support 3/8th SHORT chain? Have I missed something? The G-7 seems to have a diameter = .394", inside length = 1.23", inside width = .62".

Do you get a different chainwheel/gypsy? I saw a discounted Maxwell VW series 1200, but with a shorter chainweel/gypsy at my local chandlery that I would like to buy if it's possible to get a chainwheel put in for the system 7 3/8th chain.

Maxwell can supply you with a chainwheel that will fit. Just tell them what you are using (they have supplied us with chainwheels for many years that fit ACCO system 7).

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When you get a chance could you please ask Steve what he thought of the Rocna anchor he bought after using it in Washington, Canada and Alaskan waters? Thanks, Dennis

Hi Dennis: The anchor works as advertised - and is a big improvement over anything we have used in the past. We were often anchoring on 2-1 scope (usually after setting on 2.5-1) due to lack of swinging room, water depth, or both, and we never had a problem.

The only time we did not get a really good bite was in Sitka, on Baronof, where the bottom is extremely soft. In rocky bottoms and kelp-fouled bottoms it did well.

All of this in the context of an oversized hook- 250 pounds/115kg - and 3/8" chain. - Steve

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Steve - I am preparing to install an anchor windlass on my light displacement 43' sloop. Primary anchor is a 45# CQR with 75' of 3/8 HT chain + 250' 5/8" nylon rode. Secondary anchor is a Fortress FX-37 with 25' of 3/8 HT chain + rode. I will carry a 100# Luke storm anchor. My question is how to manage multiple anchor lines/chains with a single windlass. I would prefer a low profile vertical windlass to keep weight down and stay out of the foredeck crew's way when racing, and am willing to live with rope/chain splice and redoing same when any splice wear starts to show. But I do not believe this will enable handling two anchor rodes? Adding a drum to the vertical windlass will handle the second rope rode, but not the chain. What do you suggest? Thank you. - Bill

Bill: You can use a vertical windlass - chain on the gypsy at the bottom of the windlass with the second anchor rode onto the warping drum on the top of the windlass. The alternative is to have a horizontal windlass with a separate gypsy and warping drum.

We favor the single vertical approach as we rarely anchor on two hooks, preferring to put most of our anchor weight in a single hook. In your case, we'd switch to 5/15" schedule seven chain and put the weight savings into the primary anchor. Also, look at the Spade/Rocna type hooks as these offer better holding in a wider variety of bottoms than the CQR. - Steve

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Dear Steve Dashew, Many thanks for the fine web postings on the new powerboat. I have a question regarding your anchoring setup. How do you maintain the strength of the G7 chain through your shackle attachment to the Bruce? Do you have ACCO install an oversized link and use, say, a 5/8" shackle? Or do you have a source for high-test shackles? I am building a 19m powercat designed by Malcolm Tennant to be launched early '06. See you in Patagonia! Thank you, Bill

Hi Bill: Matching the chain strength requires a high-strength shackle rather than one of mild steel (and never stainless). These are not always available in galvanized--so you have to put up with some rust.

We have ACCO supply the chain with oversized links on both ends, which accommodates the shackle.

We've found that a shackle with appropriate pin diameter for the breaking strength of the System Seven chain usually fits the large Bruce anchors without problem. - Steve

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We have purchased a Stevens 47 and the stern Danforth anchor has all webbing rode stowed on a reel. Do you have any knowledge of the adequacy of this rode? How does it stand up to UV? It has been coiled for probably years and never used as far as I can tell. - George

Hi George: Re the UV, that could be an issue. However, odds are it will only affect the outer layer or two of the webbing. Re the strength of the webbing, you might be able to take a section to a local sailmaker and get their opinion. However, most polyester webbings rarely exceed 4000lb tensile strength, and this is very much on the light side for a stern anchor on a boat like yours. If you want to stay with the reel, look into getting some Spectra webbing, which is available in much higher strengths. Regards - Steve

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Hello, have a HR46 (40,000 pounds) with 75Lbs CQR; would you replace it with a heavier Bruce or Delta? Will sail to French Polynesia next year...Thanks for your advice, Giorgio

Hi Giorgio: I think I would go with the largest Bruce - 50 kg. Much better holding in thin sand over coral. - Steve

(Correction: This Q&A answer originally said Delta - it has been corrected to say Bruce. Sorry for any confusion. - SetSail)

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Will 3/8 HT chain work in a Lofrans 10 mm gypsy? Or will I have to order my chain in France? - Paul Camp

Re your chain issue, this is a question of the gypsy and chain fitting. The schedule 7 we normally use fits the Maxwell gypsies. The thing to do is to ask the chain supplier for a short piece of chain, about 18", and then send it to Amel and have them order a gypsy to fit. - Steve

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Hi Steve - You were kind to advise me regarding the draft for my new boat last year. Now I am in the process of equipping the boat for a circumnavigation primarily in the tropics. My boat is a 57-foot sloop from X-yachts in Denmark with little windage, the weight is 20 tonnes. I am going to use the Bruce as main anchor and the suggested size for stormy conditions is 30kg, but as I remember from your book you suggest to move up in weight, which in this case will be 50kg. Can you help me to decide between 30 and 50 kg?

I am bringing a 100m stainless chain. Can you recommend an appropriate dimension? Kind regards, Mogens

Hi Mogens: 30KG is fine for normal conditions, but it will not be big enough for poor bottoms or storm conditions. My suggestion would be the 50Kg Bruce. I would not use stainless chain as it is weaker than the higher grades of carbon steel chain. We normally use a schedule 7 lifting chain, galvanized. For our Sundeer 56/60 we recommend 5/16" schedule seven - for Beowulf we used 3/8" schedule 7. - Steve

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We are planning to buy a SAGA 43 which is a very narrow boat, with a narrow bow. We have been told that the boat sails while at anchor. We were wondering if this is a problem simply because of the narrow width and bow, and if there is some way to counteract and rid ourselves of this problem by anchoring techniques, use of wind vane, use of a riding sail, etc. We know that the Deerfoot is a narrow boat and hoped that your experience with narrow hulls might put us on the right track. We would appreciate any suggestions you might have. Thank you. Sandy

Hi Sandy: Actually, narrow boats are more calm at anchor than their fatter brethren. However, the two roller furled jibs on the Saga 43 will create a forward center of effort when on the hook and this could be the cause of the problems you report. The easiest (only) way around this is with a riding sail. Experiment with the storm jib on the backstay. Once you get a feel for the size, you can have a proper sail made up (more data on riding sails can be found in both Offshore Cruising Ency. and Surviving the Storm). Steve

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Steve - It's finally time to take our Deerfoot 61/63 out the St. Lawrence from Chicago to Maine for the summer, then the Caribbean for the winter and the Med for the following summer. I have a question regarding anchors. I have a 105lb CQR that works well but needs replacing, as the point has rusted through. I am considering the purchase of the following: 105lb CQR, 140lb CQR, 110lb Bruce, or 110lb Claw (Bruce knockoff). Which would you recommend? In particular, have you gotten any feedback on the Simpson Lawrence Claw anchors? They typically are priced less than 50% of the same size Bruce. (FYI, I also have a Fortress FX85 and a 100lb Paul Luke fisherman anchor as backups.) Thanks in advance, Mike

Hi Mike: I'd be tempted to go with the 110lb Bruce - or the Simpson Lawrence Claw if it is exactly the same. This will give you better holding in rock than any of the CQR sizes, and better holding in thin sand over coral and soft mud. It will not be as good in hard sand/mud, but that's what the size is for. If the anchor is not exactly the same, I would make the decision on the basis of this question: Assume you are anchored in an open bay, there are lots of rocks/reefs so you need good light to exit, and it is midnight, when the unforecast blow starts. The wind then rapidly builds to 50/60 knots with blinding rain squalls, all pushing you against a rocky lee shore. Now, what anchor do you want on the bottom?

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Dear Steve, From your books I learned you use schedule 70 chain. Have you had any problems with this chain losing its galvanization? Thanks! John

Hi John: All US-made chain has a problem with galvanizing - regardless of grade. Our first schedule 70 Acco chain went 5.5 years before we replaced it. But at the end, it was a rusty mess! Steve

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what is your view on using big swivel to connect the anchor to the chain? I was reading Earl Heinz' book on anchoring and it seems important to put them on the right way around - Phil

Swivels are not required in my own experience. I have never used one. Also, they are a potential failure point. I know of two boats that have had problems as a result of their swivels. - Steve

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Hydraulic motors. You mention the problems with running your anchor windlass, the need for large wire size to minimize voltage drop on the long run to the bow. Why not power the windlass with a hydraulic motor? You already have a pump onboard for the auto pilot, even adding an additional pump would provide some redundancy for the autopilot system. Now all you need is a tiny motor and a couple skinny (1/4 in od) lines running up to the bow. These motors are robust, simple, easily speed and overload controlled, corrosion resistant (I own a chemical plant, believe me I know about corrosion!), very lightweight... I first saw these used at a plant in Norway. All the agitators drive motors (probably 10 total) were run by a single hydraulic drive pump. Speaking of multiple motors, how about that big power winch you use on Beowulf? Slap a hydraulic motor on that thing too and get rid of the need for a 24 volt electric system all together!

Hi Russ: This is a more complex issue than it may appear at first. I think we cover it in some detail in Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia, but here are a few basics.

1-When comparing weight and cost, you need to add in all of the pieces.

2-Hydraulic hoses may be lighter than wire (but not by much once they are filled with oil), and the motors may be lighter, but by the time you add in pumps, valves, reservoirs, and heat exchangers, the total system is invariably heavier.

3-Hydraulics are noisy, and they always, 100% guaranteed, leak. I've used them on a number of boats, and for most yachts, they don't make sense to me. Regards - Steve

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Steve: You emphasize the importance of weight in anchors. Is it weight itself or fluke size that you think important? This issue has obvious relevance to buying a steel or aluminum version of an anchor where this is possible: Fortress and Spade. I don't have an anchor windlass on my 40' J120 and don't want one. So I want a light anchor. I am considering a 33# aluminum Spade which is the same size as a 66# steel Spade. What do you think? - David

Hi David: Both fluke size and weight are important. Weight is necessary for penetrating certain types of bottoms. Other than that, fluke area rules. However, too much fluke area usually means an anchor which is structurally vulnerable in certain conditions.

There are no conclusive answers to this - except to use really BIG anchors! Now, if you don't want a windlass, then the issues gets a bit more tricky. And if you anchor in protected waters, know the weather, and are not adverse to staying up all night standing anchor watch when it does blow, I suppose the aluminum hooks would get the job done most of the time. Let us know how it turns out... Steve

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Dear Steve and Linda, Impressed by your books, esp. the encyclopedia. Still I've 1 question: I'm looking for a powered windlass for my new 50' ALU ketch. In your books you hint electrical windlasses are good enough, however I hear from different people that they can only work for a short period because of heating of the DC motor. Indeed e.g. Muir says to me: max. 10 minutes running time. At a speed of 8 m.min that's only 80 meters chain. Now you also write that anchoring involves 3 maybe even 5 trials before the anchor holds. How does that relate to each other? Wouldn't therefore a hydraulic windlass be better? Many thanks in advance, Ronald

Hi Ronald: We've been using electric windlasses for the past 25 years without problems. In all of that time we've replaced two motors.

Hints for successful operation:
1-Get an oversized windlass. For a boat your size I'd recommend something like the Nilson 3500 or equivalent.
2-Use heavy duty wiring, sized for no more than 3% voltage drop at max amps. On BEOWULF that's 00 wire!
3-Run the engine for 10 to 15 minutes before using the windlass to bring battery voltage up, so the windlass has lots of power from the higher voltage.
4-Carry spare brushes, a spare motor, and spare solenoids.
5-Do not mount any control switches on the deck. They always fail. Use a control switch on a long lead, which can be stowed someplace dry.
6-Keep control solenoids and related electrical terminals in the interior, where they will stay dry.
7-Clean and lube the windlass parts at least twice a year.

Good Luck -Steve Dashew

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I am doing an extensive refit of an old Pearson Coaster (30ft) with the goal of doing some extensive cruising. One problem I have been attempting to solve is the storage of the anchor chain. I know were I want to store it, in the keel, but getting it there is the problem.

I want to deliver the chain to the keel from the windless through a PVC pipe to the keel. My theory is that the PVC pipe is something that should be considered a wear item. I would be installing it in such a way that it can be easily replaced. Thus far I have isolated that I need a minimum slope of 12 degrees and that I need to use a pipe size of 1 1/2" ID for the 1/4" High Test chain. The next size smaller PVC pipe, 1 1/4" ID, is just the right size that if a link rolls up the chain will jam.

This appears to me as though I might be going about this from the wrong direction. I don't have any experience in this area and something doesn't feel right about my solution.

If anyone has had any experience in this area and would be willing to share any suggestions, they would be most welcome. If I am going about this from the wrong direction, please tell me, and if there is a better way to approach this problem, that I would also like to know. Thank you in advance, Fred C.

Hi Fred: Your instincts are right on! If you want the chain to self-stow, you will need a nearly vertical drop off the windlass. Bringing it back to the keel is great for motion, but a pain for storage. Guaranteed that someone will have to pull it back and flake it. Maybe a compromise will work: Straight drop for everyday use, and then the PVC pipe for passages. Steve Dashew

Thank you for the reply. You confirmed what I thought would be the case, however let me give you a couple of additional details just to see if that changes the picture any. First; There is a straight drop from the windless into the top end of the PVC pipe of about 20" then the pipe has a slope in the range of 12 to 14 degrees. At the end of the pipe there is a small roller then a drop to the bottom of the keel of about 18". This final drop is what I hope will add what ever pull is necessary to over come the friction between the chain and the PVC pipe. I am going ahead and installing this system and what ever changes are needed I will just have to plug holes and go to plan B, what ever that might be. The one bit of information I am missing is a chart listing what volume a given length of 1/4" High Test chain will take up. If you could guide me to where this might be published I would greatly appreciate it.

Hi Fred: You might get away with your approach. Best thing is to test it with a mock up on shore, before building it in. Re: chain volume, I have that somewhere in the office, but not sure right now where. If I find it, will send it to you. Steve

Steve: Thank you for your help. I have done an extensive mock up, in the boat, and found that attempting to store the anchor chain in the keel would be marginal at best. Therefore, I have opted for moving the water tank to the keel and putting a chain box in it's place under the v-berth. Thank you, Fred C.

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Does it make a difference where on the rode you attach a nylon snubber when anchoring? I would think that closest to the boat would be best - putting the snubber between most of the chain shock and the boat, but that would make it impossible to shorten your scope after setting the anchor. Suggestions? Mark L.

Hi Mark: The issue of where on the rode you attach is really a function of how long a snubber is being used. What you need varies with the conditions being experienced and the load on your boat. The longer the snubber, the more shock it will absorb. Our snubber on Beowulf is 25' long 1/2" three strand nylon. We usually have just ten feet or so veered - the longer length is used when there is more load. You can find quite a bit of data on snubbers and anchoring in both Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia and Practical Seamanship. Good Luck - Steve

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Steve & Linda, thank you. I have read your books, kept up over the net, and most of all, have enjoyed your cumulative years of sailing wisdom.

I singlehand a Columbia 50 and cruise the islands from Palm Beach, Fl. I have decided to install an anchor windlass and I am looking for suggestions. Ideal appeals to me but I am conservative as to the battery usage. Thank you, Dusko Bruer

Hi Dusko: In the last 15 years we've only had experience with Maxwell Windlasses. They have served us well and I can't see a reason to recommend anything else. Can't give you any first hand data on Ideal. We have never considered battery usage an issue as the engine is almost always on when the anchor is coming up - to maintain good voltage to the windlass motor (even when we are sailing off the hook). Good luck with your cruising - Steve Dashew

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Hi Steve: I'm interested in rigging a timer to my anchor light so I don't burn it during the day when I'm away from the boat. Are you aware of any 12V timers I could put in the line to the light or another way to skin this cat? Thank you, Tom

Hi Tom: Several ways to go about this. One way is to go to Radio Shack, pick up a mini-solar cell and a normally closed solenoid. When the NC solenoid receives power from the solar panel during the day, it opens the circuit to the anchor light.

A simpler way is to buy an LED with a plastic Fresnel lens from Davis Instruments. Or, West Marine sells something similar powered by a lantern battery. Both of these have the mini solar panels, so they turn off during the day. Regards - Steve

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Hi Steve, My name is Ethan Smith. I've got the Ovni 36 "Eyoni" across the basin from Beowulf. We spoke briefly before I bought it. I was fortunate enough to receive both the Encyclopedia and Surviving the Storm for Xmas. Yea me. Both a hugely informative and exceptionally well done, my complements. In your anchoring section in the Encyclopedia, you mention moving to high test and a smaller link and making up the difference (or some of it) in anchor weight & rode length. I'm in the process of redesigning the anchoring system on Eyoni and want to know, in your opinion, if 1/4 HT (G-4) is adequate in terms of swl and breaking strength (schedule 70 better?) for a cruising setup for Eyoni? She is of moderate windage and has a design displacement of 12,500 lbs. The boat currently has 200' of 3/8 PC with is less than ideal. I had initially leaned towards 5/16 BBB or HT - do I sacrifice much by giving up the higher ultimate breaking strength of the (non-HT) larger links? We made it to San Miguel Is. for the first time on our recent 9 day holiday cruise. It was warm and flat as a lake! Thanks for your time and expertise. Hope to see you on the water soon. Sincerely, Ethan