Integrating Nav Equipment

Hello, We have just discovered your site and are very excited about it. With your help we may finally be able to figure out our best options for integrating a laptop, electronic charts, gps (none of which are yet purchased) and our existing auto pilot (Autohelm 4000). We have a 30ft Catalina sloop and are somewhat electronically challenged. We plan on using charts from Maptech, NOAA, Explorer and maybe The Captain. Anything you can suggest will be of great benefit. Thank you.

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Hi David and Jackie: First, we'd suggest you look at Rose Point's Coastal Explorer. It comes with the complete NOAA data base and is a simple-to-use, yet powerful enough program. There is a new version coming out in a week or so.

As far as integrating the pilot, with most modern gear this is not difficult. However, we do not do this ourselves as it tends to make the driver less attuned to what is going on around the boat on the assumption that the pilot and chart plotter are working together.

All of the above assumes you are using a PC-based system.

There are also lots of all-in-one chart plotters which will be less costly (unless you have the PC onboard already for other uses) and can be used outside. The downside is less versatility and a much smaller screen. But for local work a dedicated unit can make sense.

Hope this helps - Steve

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Furuno Sonar Flange

Dear Steve, I am following your gear review used on your new boat carefully as I am building 54'steel sail boat (Bruce Roberts). I am interested in the Furuno Sonar that you have recently installed. In your review you are praising Furuno for designing the flange to fit a 6" pipe.

"Furuno's engineers were thinking ahead here, as the pipe is a standard size, as is the flange."

From what I can determine the standard flange for 6" pipe is not exactly the same as the flange supplied with the sonar.

My questions are:
Did you accept the difference between the two flanges and just bolted them together?
Did you have a metric flange installed instead of 6" one?
Or is there US model of the Sonar that comes with a 6" flange on its housing?

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Hi Remek: I think Furuno just makes the single model - for both SAE and Metric countries. As you indicated, the standard 6" schedule 80 pipe and the standard SAE pipe flange matched the bolt pattern of the Furuno CH270 flange. All of which makes the pipe install very simple.

One thing we would do differently, however. You can use quite a long pipe if required to keep the flange above waterline. In our case we came up about 8" (200mm) above max load WL. But in hindsight, it would have been better to come up a couple of feet (60cm). This would allow the sound dome to be raised above the water level when the boat was in storage.

Regards - Steve

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Navigation Course

Hi Linda & Steve: We have recently purchased your four-volume series and find them extremely helpful. We are just beginning our sailing career and are using your books to get that 10-20 year jump (as you say). The message that stands out more than anything else is the seriousness of sailing and being prepared.

Navigation seems to us to be the most important subject (at this point). We haven't gotten to the weather book yet, however, I know it's just as important but one thing at a time. We live in Phoenix and keep our boat in Seattle. Can you recommend a school that offers a good navigation course in Phoenix? We wish to keep our boat on top of the water unlike Jubilation and others ( very sad).

Thank you for your help and sharing of invaluable information. Cheers, Larry

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Hi Larry: Phoenix - we're almost neighbors. We're headed to Puget Sound and AK in a few weeks so maybe we'll see you up there.

As to nav courses in AZ, I would check the Power Squadron http://www.usps.org/e_stuff/Basic.html and perhaps American Sailing Association http://www.asa.com/

Further away, Orange Coast College in Southern California has a variety of courses on offer. I'm sure there will be a bunch in the Seattle area as well. Good Luck - Steve

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Sonar

Dear Steve, I am thinking of installing the Interphase http://www.interphase-tech.com/pcview.htm forward-scanning sonar on the steel 55' sail boat that I am building. It would seem that every sail or power boat should have one of these in order to be able to see what lies ahead and to be able to avoid any obstacle. But so far I was not able to find anybody that has had any experience with it. So I am writing to you with a hope that in your research of the new electronics for your FPB you may have looked at Interphase sounders, or you may have heard from someone that used it. Would you please share your thoughts regarding this gear? - Remek

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Hi Remek: We looked hard at sonar in general and the Interphase unit. They all seem to have some validity in smooth water. However, it remains doubtful how well they do with objects on the surface when there are waves around. We decided against sonar because we were feeling overloaded with electronics, and you have to draw the line somewhere! However, if you fit one we'd love to hear from you about how it works out. -Steve

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Storing Charts

Steve: I'm installing a tube for storing charts. Looking at West Marine it appears the small dimension of "large charts" is no greater than 36". Does this reflect your experience? I have room for a tube up to 60" but don't want to end up with charts lost down a ridiculously long tube. Thanks, Chip

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Hi Chip: When we do tubes for clients it is usually 36". However, personally I don't like tubes as it is hard to store many charts in them and they are a pain when first unrolled. I just fold mine, and then use the area chart to hold all of the detail charts. This does insert a crease into the equation - just one of those many tradeoffs. -Steve

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Combining GPS with Older Instruments

I have B&G autopilot circa 2000 at the pedestal (in the network series...i.e. network PILOT), network DATA at the nav table, wind, and a repeater at the bulkhead. I also have network WIND. I have an old Raytheon (as was) chartplotter(not working), and there is an old Raytheon plotter/radar (RL9) mounted on the pedestal reading from a Raytheon antenna mounted on a pole. It gives a reasonable radar signal.

My yacht is a classic 1970 Swan 40 Sp&S. design. She is now in Antigua.

My B&G instruments work perfectly. They are all Network B&G instruments I have an older Raytheon GPS antenna also mounted on the pole. I do not know if it gives NMEA(0183) output. My nav station is run by my laptop running Maxsea software and connected to a Globalstar satphone.

I propose to buy a small fixed GPS reader to be mounted at the nav station to give position...I assume it might be able to read the signal from the existing GPS antenna though if not I can replace it with a suitable antenna, and give a NMEA signal to my laptop computer. Ideally I should like this to be a B&G GPS (if there is one in the network series). Please advise if you know of one.

Should I buy Networknav? Any info comments? Where can I buy...any second-hand from upgrades? I need a good GPS receiver as I understand it.

I want to keep the B&G instruments I have. I want to make a system from what|I have that will speak thru NMEA to my laptop. Will Maxsea read any NMEA signal and overlay it on any of the charts loaded electronically. What output signals will MaxSea give to autopilot? Do you have any observations/advice?

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I am not familiar with your B&G gear so I cannot tell you if you can feed it a GPS signal and then take the NEMA output from the B&G to your computer. However, there are several approaches for combining an standard GPS signal at the computer with your B&G wind/depth data. One approach is to purchase a NMEA combiner which will take two or more signals, combine these, and then output the data in serial, USB, or NMEA format. One such unit is made by Noland Engineering (http://www.nolandengineering.com/). The other approach is to have two inputs into your computer. You can do this with a PCMIA card which accepts two or more serial inputs, or with a USB-to-serial converter. You probably have something like this now with your Globalstar phone. Good luck. -Steve

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Prioritizing Electronics for Cruising on 42' Cat

I found your web site today and was fascinated with all the possibilities. We are in the process of buying a 42' cat and will be sailing from the US East Coast through the Panama Canal and out to the South Pacific and points beyond. The boat does not have anything other than self steering and basic instruments and we would like to equip with radar, gps, plotter, etc...running into a PC and of course not spend a fortune. What would you suggest as someone who obviously has a great deal of experience? The route plotting seems like a great idea and we will have a sat phone but are unsure about a SSB. Thanks, David

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Hi David: You pose a very tough question. A lot depends on your style of navigation, budget, etc. From our perspective, we're hooked on electronic charting. Resisted it for a long time, but for us it reduces the nav work load allowing more time for weather analysis.

As far as radar goes, the most important thing is target definition in difficult sea-states. Nothing else really matters. Toward this end buy the best quality set you can afford and the biggest antennae. Antenna size is much more important than output power. Our own preference is Furnuno, who still seem to have a better target definition than anyone else.

SSB is a tough call. It is not nearly as useful as a satphone, unless you are a ham. But nice for talking to other boats. New models now have the automated distress capability and all ships now monitor these frequencies. Connected to the GPS it will give out a distress call and your lat. and lon. Redundant with the EPIRB for sure, but overall I think we'll probably go with one on our new boat.

Having said all of the above, if you have to wait around and earn more money to buy all this fancy stuff I'd say go now. Buy a couple of portable GPS units, a used ham rig, and forget the rest. When we started cruising in the 70s we did not even have a VHF let alone a long range radio, and GPS or Sat Nav had yet to be invented. Only one boat we knew even had a weather fax. And everybody did just fine. Good Luck--Steve

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Chart and Radar Integration

Hi Steve, I don't know if you covered this anywhere (couldn't find it in your books, SetSail or in MaxSea) but I have to renew/upgrade my Radar. Obviously want to get one with Mini ARPA output for overlaying targets on MaxSea/charts. However, in addition, sailing mainly shorthanded, would like (need) to have chart, radar and overlays (if possible) on a repeater in the cockpit.

All the main Radar/Chart Plotter suppliers (Raymarine, Furuno etc.) don't have any protocol for third party suppliers of chart software to repeat via their screens either main or repeater. As far as I found out so far, only RayTech Navigator (with additional Racing module upgrade) allows their propriety software to connect via their "Seatalk" or HSB and one (or more) of their Radar/Plotter displays.

In other words, it seems to me only Raymarine, if you buy their chart software cables, HSB or Seatalk etc. is able to achieve this desirable requirement. That would mean dumping MaxSea (of which I have an investment already) and going all RayMarine? (coincidentally I have all RayMarine ST 60's instrumentation in the cockpit). All the other systems are capable of Radar/Plotter as main screen with repeaters (Furuno's NavNet for example) in cockpit, but then you have to buy their cartridge Rom's with the charts again and that would cost a fortune.

Any suggestions on how to "get repeated" in the cockpit without costing a fortune in waterproof tablet computers? Also, are there any Radars on the market which give a signal to operate on a PC/Laptop which could then be duplicated somehow to a screen in the cockpit (along with the chart plotting of course)? (what about using a PDA as a dumb terminal via wireless? bit small I know, but thinking of cost).

Appreciate your views/advice/knowledge on this subject. Kind regards/George W

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Hi George: To me the #1 concern with radar is target definition and Furuno is still tops in this category from what I am told by my installer friends who sell both brands. The mini-arpa to PC transfer is easy and I think potentially valuable in tight quarters. But the main value is right on the radar screen itself. As far as chart and radar overlay together, I have used this on my dad's boat and am not impressed. My feeling is that I like each separate, where I can have a full screen for radar and a separate, full screen for charts. Less chance this way of making an error in interpretation.

As to radar at the helm, this depends on where and how you cruise. My preference is to keep all electronics and electrics out of the cockpit. Otherwise, they eventually get wet and cause problems--it is only a matter of time. But if you can arrange a second monitor so it is totally sealed off from breaking waves and spray, maybe this would be a good thing. Regards--Steve

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Nav Instrument Integration

I'm building a 65' Cruising Cat, and am at the beginning design stages with my designer. While he's working on that, I'm doing the research for the nav functionality. I'm somewhat perplexed by the array of nav equipment available from the 6-10 major suppliers and how things will fit together along with the MaxSea software, so as to get maximum coverage AND integration. Should all the items come from a single source and, if so, which would you recommend in terms of reliability and repairablilty
considering the number of places one can find ones self while circumnavigating?

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Hi Geoffrey: We'll be going through the same conundrum on our own new boat. I am leery of putting all my navigation eggs in one basket. We'll talk a lot more in a few months on our decision making process for this category of gear but right now here is the direction we are heading.

For autopilots we'll use WH--still the most reliable from what we can see. Easy to tie to any standard GPS if we want to steer to a way point, or to drive from MaxSea.

We'll have two GPS units installed. Only one will be tied to the other instruments. The second will remain on its own. However, the wiring will be done in such a way so that it is easy to switch the NEMA cables from one GPS to the other, should we want to change which one feeds the NEMA signal to the other gear.

On radar we only care about one feature--target definition in sea-clutter. Furuno has always had the edge here. But we will test both Furuno and Raytheon and maybe some others to see which we like the best.

As far as integrating everything into a single package, we have not formed a definitive idea on this yet. In the past we've stayed away from it. But we will revisit the technical issues and risks after the first of the year and make a decision then. Good luck--Steve

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Raytheon R40X Radar for World Cruising

I currently have a Raytheon R40X unit but it is an old unit (while very good) that is "dumb" and cannot talk to anything else. I can't decide whether to replace it outright or add a 20 mile Foruno on a pole at the stern. I intend to world cruise the boat beginning in 18 months. Any thoughts? The boat is Gulfstar 50 Sailmaster that I have been updating for the voyage, and while she is older, she is a very beautiful heavy cruiser. Thanks again, Jim

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Hi Jim: You will find the new Furuno radar vastly superior to the Raytheon 40X. This is especially true in the area of target definition in sea-clutter. I once had a 40X and was not very happy with my choice!

The Gulfstar Sailmaster is a very roomy boat, as you know. The penalty you pay for that room is performance, especially upwind. So I would be particularly careful not to get yourself into heavy weather situations where you have something shallow or hard under your lee. And of course be sure you have a good system for storm shutters on the house windows.

Beyond this, the usual survey of systems, structure, and rig should be done carefully. Keep in mind that this boat was never intended to do what you are planning. That doesn't mean it cannot be done. Just that you need to take care and keep an eye on things. Regards--Steve

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Radar Choice

Steve, How much radar does a cruising sailboat need? 2 kw or 4 kw? And any other aspects of knowing about radar that you think might be interesting? Mac--(52' Schumacher being built in New Zealand).

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Hi Mac: There is only one issue with radar as far as I am concerned. That is target discrimination in lousy conditions--i.e., sea clutter and rain. In good conditions any sort of radar will work--but then you don't really need radar.

To get good definition you need first the largest antenna you can fit. This is an issue of physics, and there is no way around it. My preference is for a 48" open array. You can get away with 36", but anything smaller will not give acceptable results in sea clutter. The second issue is power. Four KW is way better than 2, and 6 is better than 4.

Look at it this way--there is a 10-foot sea running, there's a front passing through with intermittent squalls, and you are closing with a lee shore where there is going to be lots of traffic. What sort of gear do you want?...Steve

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Sight Reduction Tables

I have several books on celestial navigation and various references such as H.O. 229, 214, etc. Haven't yet found out which is the most practical reference for an average yacht in open ocean. I have a GPS, of course, and wondered how frequently cruisers are using their sextants and if so, in what way and how often? It used to be a line of sight in the morning, a noon sight, and evening star sights. I suppose it's now just a daily noon sight, if that.

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We grew up using HO 249 for sight redutcion. However, the Air Reduction (I think that is HO229) is almost as accurate and is in one volume rather than three for 249. As to how often modern cruisers use their sextants, I can tell you from our own experience not often enough!

In the olden days our sextant was used on average of three times a day on all passages. But since we aquired our first Satellite Navigator in the mid- 1980s, this average has dropped to about once a year. Of course, using a sextant, and doing the sight reduction is not that difficult. The key is to get familiar with it and comfortable with the process, and then use it enough so that if a lightning strike or wave took out your electronics, you were close to navigational hazards, and it was blowing a gale, you could still figure out where you were. In that context, we keep our almanace and sight reduction tables in ZipLock bags--so just in case... Steve Dashew

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